Jim and Graz And Givin' Me The Shits!!
Here are some audio clips from Shat about the latest back and forth on FN.
So Here, Enjoy...
Giving Me The Shits Part 1
Giving Me The Shits Part 2
Giving Me The Shits Part 3
Giving Me The Shits Part 4
Love Shat!
So Here, Enjoy...
Giving Me The Shits Part 1
Giving Me The Shits Part 2
Giving Me The Shits Part 3
Giving Me The Shits Part 4
Love Shat!
posted by Liquid Waves O' Stevens @ 3:19 AM
11 comments
11 Comments:
back and forth, back and forth:
Just watch the bouncing Jesus!
Poor Shat, get DeMar's book "Last Days Madness" dude because you are frickin' INFECTED!
--cordell
and shat ol' man, the RESURRECTION is literal--I never said it wasn't. What the disagreement is about is pretrib premill dispie doctrine of the rapture, which is pure invention on their part. SO if you have the shits, that's where you need to start dealin' with it.
--cordell
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/10-18-06.asp
http://www.americanvision.org/downloads/rapturereport.pdf
those two should help, if you're interested.
"RESURRECTION is literal"
I was agreeing with you there, my beef was about the timing, so i'm agreeing with you on that.
i'm saying that i don't see where it actually says that it'll be pre trib, not saying it wont, just saying i don't see it.
-shat
cordell - i really enjoyed the dialog you and graz had on this issue. i've been working on shat about this stuff for a couple years. i'm glad you brought up the fact that you recognize some aspects of eschatology as literal, because shat simplified the debate into "literal" against "figurative." i don't really think it was that way - graz represents more of the invention or assumption dispie camp while you represent the more orthodox, scriptually-based camp. but what i do like about shat's commentary is that it does indicate that, in the end, it'll happen how it'll happen and our opinions about it won't matter all that much. it's not a cardinal point of contention.
There are two returns of Christ.
One for his church (Jn 14:2-3, Acts 1:11; 1 Cor 15:50-52) see also Col 3:4. In the famous 'rapture' verse 1 Thess 4;17...the meeting is in the air.
When his feet stand on the Mount of Olives and splits it in half...we have a different event. (Zech 14:4) This second return is to judge the earth and establish his kingdom.
---Graz
http://www.reformed.org/eschaton/index.html?mainframe=/eschaton/Not_So_Secret.html
read it
Is 1 Cor. 15 "the twinkling of an eye" verse about the rapture?
In the famous 'rapture verse' in 1 Thess. 4, the coming of Christ is announced by a shout, a voice of an archangel and a trumpet. This is an announced arrival, not a secret rapture--this is the second coming, the resurrection not a mere meeting in the air which is simply a discription of the welcoming committee.
"Ryrie has claimed "Premillennialism is the historic faith of the Church."(6) Lightner comments that Premillennialism is "the oldest of the three millennial views" and prevailed "virtually unchallenged until the time of Origen (185-254) and his allegorical and nonliteral methods of interpretation of Scripture."(7) Both Ryrie and Lightner were professors at Dallas Theological Seminary where Alan Patrick Boyd completed his masters thesis on the eschatology of the early Church fathers. Boyd wrote "It is the conclusion of this thesis that Dr. Ryrie's statement is historically invalid."(8) "These Churchmen were not literalistic; drew no essential distinction between Israel and the Church; did not have a Dispensational view of history; . . . did not hold to imminency and pretribulationism; and their eschatological chronology was not synonymous with Dispensationalism's."(9) Boyd's thesis stated Ryrie changed his opinion on the historicity of Premillennialism but lamented that published corrections had not been made. Despite Boyd's findings and documentation by others, Lightner continued to claim this as late as 1990."
http://www.geocities.com/pvrosman/Dispensationalism_The_Case_Against_Premillenialism.html
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